https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6i6z1T0CEo Catherine Austin Fitts on Iran, Epstein, US Corruption and the Control Grid Reinvent Money 2026-03-14 Reinvent Money Season 2026 Paul Buitink talks to former government official and founder of Solari Report Catherine Austin Fitts. They discuss her recent interview with Tucker Carlson, whether she still can enter the US easily and how she's been obstructed by the US over the years. They discuss the Middle East war and why this in tune with the control grid that is being rolled out. Trump is corrupt and expendable Catherine says. She also explains how families like the Rothschilds, whom Epstein worked for, and the Rockefellers form a syndicate controlling people like Trump. She stresses the role of having a plan B and why cash and gold are important. Digital currency can also be a force of good but only when used the right way. More info about Solari Report here: https://home.solari.com/ Follow Paul on X here: https://x.com/paulbuitink Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:30 Tucker Carlson and Catherine's US trip 7:28 Catherine's views on the Middle East 15:33 How will global elites benefit from the war 24:53 Trump, Epstein and the Control Grid 30:22 US corruption 37:59 Role of Rothschilds and Rockefellers 43:15 The role of digital and programmable money like Bitcoin 53:25 Why we need to preserver cash and the role of gold 54:49 Outro and the Young Builders --- everything this administration is doing to build a control grid. And from the moment they got into office on in January 2025, they've been operating at high speed to build the whole thing. If you look at this administration, this administration is very much run by that syndicate. And whatever is going on in the Middle East is very much what that syndicate wants. I have seen massive corruption in my life. I have never seen anything as bad as this. I think you can use digital currency if you do it wallet to wallet and do it yourself. I think there is a way to use it, you know, that can work for the freedom team. I also think the control grid will fail. Um, so I think the guys trying to put into institute the control grid will ultimately fail and that's why the rest of us have to have plan B. And I see young people destroyed by, you know, the mind control programming and all the stuff that's going on. So >> sure. Yeah. >> So, so part of it is teaching them to adopt a culture that will help them be successful and productive. Hello everybody, my name is Paul and welcome to Reinvent Money, a podcast about money and power with every week and inspiring guest. Today back on the show is Katherine Austin Fitz. A woman who hardly needs an introduction but who worked under the Bush senior presidency and as an investment banker and now for many years already runs her own research and media firm Solari report. Katherine was recently in the Tucker Cron show again to talk about amongst other things the control grid programmable money and Epstein and I want to discuss those topics with her in more detail today. Is the third Gulf or even world war that's currently setting the Middle East on fire delaying or accelerating a global panopticon control grid? That's the main question I have for Katherine. Hi Katherine. Always a pleasure to see you. >> Hi Paul. It's a pleasure to see you. How are you? >> Yeah, I'm doing great. Thanks. Thanks so much. Are you back in the Netherlands or are you just still traveling? >> So I was supposed to fly back last Saturday but I got delayed. I'm doing I came to Tennessee to testify. So, we have uh model legislation to stop programmable money in states and um so I've been working with several states during the last month and uh anyway, but I decided to come to Tennessee and and try to get these bills through the through the committees and I'm flying back on Saturday. >> Ah, it's very important work. Yeah. And I was wondering because um I mean Tuker Carlson is one of the uh one of the most um outspoken critics of Trump at the moment and you've also criticized his his policies. Did you have any any difficulties getting into the country or? >> No. No difficulty. So one of the one of the benefits of being me is I litigated with the Department of Justice for 11 years and it was flatout war. They lied, they cheated, they stole, they rigged, you know, evidence. And we fought and fought and fought fought and and one of the things that happened, I'm told, because I was told at the beginning, you there's no hope you can win. And yet, miraculously, we were able to win. I calculated how much time it took it. It took working 36,000 hours for free, which we'll tell you why a lot of politicians or government officials don't want to fight, you know, with with uh with the deep state. But anyway, so when I was through, I was told by somebody that that that they had approached um it was either the CIA or the or the administration about coming at me again. And the word was, "Uh-uh, not her. Never again." No. >> Yeah. You can She doesn't give up. Yeah. >> Well, no. I just think I just think it's um you know, if you if you look at what happened, I had to make every aspect of my life public. And of course with technology it's every aspect is public. So you know and I try to be very careful about about being impeccable in terms of legal or regulatory compliance. So >> right so so even if they would hold you up at the border for example it would backfire because you would make it public and and it would make them look like fools. >> Well here's the thing. Under the law you have to have evidence. You have to have documentation. you have to have and and you know if if you have a fight if you look at all the sabotage I deal with it's much easier to slow me down or stop me with sabotage you know that's very quiet and invisible and you know if I were to tell you all the different things I experience which most of which are probably they can either be generalized sabotage uh done to implement technocracy or targeted towards us you never know sometimes which is which if I were to tell you all those things you'd say, well, you know, I don't know that that that could just be a coincidence, but after a thousand coincidences, you know, a week. >> Yeah, I I understand why why you also cannot diverge too much because you don't want to you you don't want to make them too wise. But I can imagine that, for example, could include hack attacks or just trying to break in uh your systems and stuff like that or >> so let me give you an example. in at the end of 2020, we published a wrap-up called the injection fraud. And it warned people why they shouldn't take the co injection. And I don't know if you've seen the cover, but there's a big horse syringe on the front. And Robert outdid himself with the graphics. They're so perfect. And um I the the printer said who was in Europe, we printed them all in Europe and then shipped to the United States for the people in North America. The printer said, "I want to give it to a remer." said, "Absolutely not. I want it going direct to NL Post. Um, you know, I want to I I don't want any extra steps in this because we've got to get this out to people, you know, because this can save lives. We got to get this out." So, uh, after 3 months from the mailing, not one person, 3,000 mailed individually all over the world, not one arrived. Not one. >> No. So finally I said, "Okay, I'm going to pay €21,000 and reprint." So we printed another one and out it went. And what we discovered, okay, so so these start hitting desks and then 4 day later the first one starts coming. They let it out. It turns out it had been grabbed and moved to a warehouse in Hamburgg and held under lock and key for three months until we printed the next one and they had to let it out. Okay. >> 21,000. So, so that the sabotage is everybody waits for 3 months and a lot of people I think probably took the shot because you know if they were listening to me to our weekly shows they would have known not to take the shot. But I I think it was a very persuasive document. Anyway, so so you know, you wait 3 months, you deal with the aggravation, and then you pay $21,000, and everybody gets two, >> right? So it sounds like a little thing, but when you keep adding those up day after day after day, the the hardest thing for me as a small business person is how do you build a team that can maintain their state of amusement dealing with that day after day after day after day? Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. and and and that's the game of technocracy. So >> yeah, we're going to discuss that in more detail. Uh let's first focus on the on the Middle East because uh that's the one thing of course that's on everyone's mind. Um because you look at current affairs and and and things across the world with a unique lens. Um so what's your take on the war in the Middle East? How will it end and why did it escalate in such a way? So I can't tell. Um, you know, I I think the Iranians are referring to the US administration as the Epstein syndicate, which I think is very fair. There's a up on salary we have two commentaries I would point you to. One is every week we add to a collection called the fast approaching control grid. Everything this administration is doing to build a control grid. And from the moment they got into office on in January 2025, they've been operating at high speed to build the whole thing. And we can talk about what that looks like. But the other one is called Was Jeffrey Epstein the father of programmable money? And I would recommend reading it. It points you to a substack that is the best thing I've ever read on Epstein after Whitney Webb's books. And what it describes is how the raw shield syndicate works and and which is basically the Epstein was part of that syndicate if you want to call it um and and that's very much equity in and around the central banks. So it does a very good job of sort of describing the syndicate and if you look at this administration this administration is very much run by that syndicate and whatever is going on in the Middle East is very much what that syndicate wants. And so the question is what is really going on? And what I will tell you is the official explanations as usual are baffling. Um and what I can't tell is whether the goal is intentionally to shut down the straits. Um or we're looking at the most remarkable act of incompetence on the part of the US that I have I could possibly imagine. So, you know, I never want to est underestimate the the possibility of incompetence, but usually incompetence is an air cover. You know, it's a story. It's a So, so let's look at what's happening. Um, and and let's go back to Gaza for a second. For 2 and 1/2 years, what we've heard is that a group of people who are under complete sanction in the financial system can still, you know, Hamas can still field weapons and armies and an empire that can slant drill oil and gas and mining, you know, miles underground can't deal with tunnels under Gaza. Okay? makes absolutely no sense because if you understand what it takes to transact, buy weapons, ship in weapons, do all of that, you know, that can't operate given the surveillance and control systems that are in place unless somebody wants it to, you know, so you're looking at a game that allows you to basically kill genocide and take the land, you know, because you need an excuse to do that. You can't, you know, the empire never likes to go in and say, "Look, we're we're just going to kill all of you and take your stuff because we want to and you know, and then and then our insiders are going to make a fortune using taxpayers money to build a new development." You can't you can't say that. So, you need a cover story, right? Okay. So, so just like we had this baffling cover story, now we have the Iranians who despite extraordinary sanctions have been able to build a very impressive military capability and and uh and the United States is helpless to to stop them. Now, here's why that is baffling to me. You have the US military has exponentially more funding than any military on the planet. and and they so so for the last two decades they've had anywhere from a half a trillion to a trillion. Now it's up to a trillion dollars a year. And what's the most important thing in the central banking warfare model that a military needs to do? What do we know if you're going to be the reserve currency? What's the number one thing you as the military must be able to do? You have to protect the trade routes. You have to protect the sealanes. the control the the trade model backing the the sterling as reserve currency and the US sterling was the navy and policing the seal lanes and the Brett and Woods model was an open trade model where everybody the the US said look we'll protect the sea lanes everybody gets to trade as long as they play ball with the rules and we're going to globalize and create a highly in interdependent massively inter interdependent global society right and global economy. So, um there's a wonderful interview, I'm sure I've told you about it before, in 1994 by Sir James Goldsmith where he talks about why doing this is in insertifiably insane, but but he does a great description of globalization and what it's going to do and the interdependencies it creates. Okay. So, so the one thing the US as reserve currency must do is make sure its navy can protect the sea lanes. Now what is the most important choke point in the whole global trade system? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And and the South China Sea, you know, you got the Panama Canal, but you've got a a couple of strategic trade points, but as a percentage, the Straits of Hormus are hugely important. So now we're listening to US say, "Oh, we're helpless up against Iran who's been suffering under, you know, extraordinary sanctions that if that was really true, they wouldn't have all these amazing hypersonic missiles, you know, yada yada yada." Okay? And now what we're watching is the entire global economy being severely shut down. So let me give you an example. We're in March. What is March? What do you mean? What is March? >> It's the spring, right? What What happens in the spring? >> Yeah. Less less demand for for fuel perhaps in in the West. >> No. No. Come on. You're in the Netherlands. You're in the Netherlands. One of the greatest food exporters in the world. >> Yeah. Farmers growing season. Yeah. >> Farmers plant in the spring. Right now, we are shutting down the critical ingredients to most European factories who make fertilizer. Right. Okay. And so by the time that gets through, whenever it gets through, it's going to be too late to make the fertilizer. You're going to miss the whole spring season. So, I I don't know. I just saw a headline. Goldman Sachs, uh, leading member of the New York Fed says that, uh, it's going to be shut down for 21 days, right? >> Yeah. >> Missed the planning season. Okay. So, so if if you look at the material coming through that's critical to chip production, the material coming through the straits that's critical to fertilizer and food and the material coming through that's that's critical to energy, you're talking about massive dislocation of the global economy and if it goes on for long enough, I mean, we have Peru, Thailand, other people talking about doing COVID kind of shutdowns to save gas and fuel. >> Right. But but you're talking about intentionally shutting down the global economy and it didn't start with Iran and it didn't start with the United States. It started with the city of London. So Lloyds of London shut down the straits with all their insurance company friends and reinsurance company friends. Right. So the city shuts down the straits and now the Iran is is helping supposedly to keep it shut down. >> Yeah. Do you buy that story that the US military is helpless? >> No, but what I struggle with is um it it seems like a lot of countries and citizens across the world are going to suffer as a result of this war and as a result of the blockade of the straight of Hormuds. Um so there will be global disorder and chaos to a large extent. And even if you if you look at Japan, they're especially vulnerable. But in the second world war, Japan did Pearl Harbor. At least that's the the common story because, you know, they they were shut off from the oil market. So when countries are in in in desperate uh in desperate position, they're going to take desperate measures. So this could easily lead to a much larger world war, this this conflict in the Middle East. So that's a huge gamble then that the global elite, for example, are taking because they run a risk themselves too. If if we have a nuclear escalation and a nuclear holocaust, what's it what's in it for them? >> So, um well, what's in it for them is implementing the control grid and depopulation together. >> Yeah. >> What's in it for them? If this is, you know, cuz we don't know yet. I think it's too early. I can't tell whether you're looking at massive incompetence on the on the on the on on the basis of the US or you're looking at an intentional desire to shut down. So this is CO 2.0. >> Yeah. >> Because Yeah. It's this is how you shut down. This is a new excuse to shut down um to preserve energy and food. I think the big problem here is famine. So you have seen the new administration in the United States systematically cut the domestic funds that are available to support food for poor people in emergencies as well as the USID and state department aid to protect countries that have emergencies you know like food. So, so you have, I don't know, 25 maybe billion dollars traditionally that the US had available to to stop famines. That money is all cut and now you have something that's creating the conditions of famine. So, you know, to me that's very disturbing. We just had Michael Yan and his wife who's Japanese Msaka were just in the Netherlands for a couple weeks and stayed with us in Seorin and we talked a lot about what had happened during CO to create the conditions the consolidation of the food system to create the conditions of famine. And now what I'm watching is a huge step up because you you simply slash um you simply slash the fertilizer market right at the beginning of spring season. I just we just played you know every week on Slayer Report we have a show called Money and Markets with John Titus. We just played a video of a farmer in Iowa saying you know our fertilizer prices are up 70%. And what it means is he can't, you know, if he plants at 70% up on fertilizer, you know, he loses money on the crop. Why plant? >> Yeah. >> So, we have farmers all over America saying, you know, we we can't plant. We we can't afford to lose money on another year or crop. >> Yeah. And then maybe they they can be supported in the end by by the government, but a lot of poor countries, of course, they don't have those uh those buffers. So it's again poor people across the globe who are going to be collateral damage in this in this crazy war. >> So here's the thing. If you look at the Netherlands in 2020, you know, in a situation like this, the Netherlands would be the most protected country in the world because of the amazing nature of your food system and farmers. But look at everything during COVID and since that the government has done to shut down the small farmers. Okay, that's your buffer. That's your protection. So, the Netherlands is still in in a great position relative to other countries, but look at everything your government has done to switch us all to lab grown meat. >> You saw our wrap up on farm food, didn't you? >> Yeah, I did. Yeah. >> Okay. Now, why do I bring this up? If I want to implement a control grid, it helps me number one to have less people, but it helps me to control food because you and I can go out and create a community currency. We don't need the central banks, but but we can't just, you know, print food out of thin air. So, um, so controlling food is is absolutely critical to implementing programmable money. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I look like I'm really cheering you up this morning. >> No, I mean you're you're as as as blonde as always and I'm I was I was already prepared and I know there's like you say, you need to keep this the state of amusement as well. So, I knew we would also laugh, which we're doing. So, no, I'm just I'm just trying to um as be as as uh as critical also as possible because what what I what I just >> I understand why um there there's a need for for less people. people that control um most of the world they we're a bit of a nuisance like in many ways ordinary people are obsolete especially with the advent of AI and everything that's going to be built robotics and everything over the next few years a lot of normal people are actually of no use anymore than to to let's say the elites I I talked about this also with Ian Davis you know about the the dark enlightenment and and people like Nick Land and Curtis Jarvin like some of these philosophies are being >> um propagated by people like Peter Theo and some of the other technocrats. So I totally get it why why the elites don't see a need for a lot of people to be there because we don't offer that much to them and if >> so if they reduce population it also makes sense that whatever is left of the population you try to control through a control grid right makes sense right >> um but it still it's a gambit because Trump could also lose this and Trump and the people behind Trump could lose this this this gambit because it it could lead to higher food prices in the US and a lot of uh uh bad consequences that could eventually leads to a a new regime in the US as well. I mean, Trump could be removed because of this. You know, things turn really bad in the US. >> I think Trump is Trump is entirely expendable. The the bankers put him in to get the control grid and he's done an A+ job of building it and persuading people to go along with it in high speed, you know, and the conservatives, you know, it's a uni party. So, so let's go back to the US. The US is very simple to understand. the US, the whole economy runs off the federal credit. So 40 to 50% of the income in any county is directly or indirectly coming off of the federal credit. So you know, we've really developed a Soviet economy. We've really centralized and and it's one of the reasons we have so many more billionaires because they're making a fortune on government contracts and government purchases and sort of rigged government deals. Anyway, if if you look at how that system works, every year we have the federal government has $6 trillion of expenses and $4 trillion of revenues and that means $2 trillion comes from, you know, the central banking money machine. And so that's what controls and the question is how do you market and sell to the population the things you want to do? And so I think Trump, and I said this in 2024, was chosen by the New York Fed member bankers to basically get the control grid. His job was to persuade. So, so, so let's look at the control grid. There are three general baskets of what you need to do. The first is programmable money. The second is digital ID. You to do programmable money, you require digital ID. And then the third is you need the hardware and the software infrastructure to do the social credit system and surveillance that you need to do those two things. Um and so you need all the data centers is the big one, but you also need a surveillance infrastructure and enforcement infrastructure to back it. So, how do you persuade uh how do you persuade conservatives and people in the heartland to embrace building that infrastructure? The way you do it is you say, "Oh, we have election fraud." Or, "Oh, we have an immigration problem and so we need a digital ID to identify who everybody is so we can't have fraud." Now remember we had, you know, we had borders and elections before digital technology. So it's a bunch of hoie, but it works. And oh, we need to put together a private army called ICE with detention centers all over the country who are free to enforce without constitutional protections in violation of the law to get these hardened criminal immigrants out. But in fact, it's not to get the hardened immigrants out. It's to manage the control grid and do what you have to do when people get antsy once they see how it's working and how it comes together. So, um, you know, so Trump has done once he got the big beautiful bill and the funding and precedent going for data centers. If you look at everything he's done to build the control grid or to put the conditions in place to do it, they now have what they need. They don't Trump is basically expendable now. Yeah. Yeah. You said last time to me when we last talked in the summer uh that they can they can just easily um let him go. I mean there's still so much of course Epstein documents that we haven't seen yet uh with Trump possibly also involved. So if they want to let go of Trump, they could just publish that and and it's over, right? # 25:10 # CAF: >> So uh there's a there's a meme going around the social media that says it perfectly. It says we've raided more raw milk farms than Epstein clients. Okay. >> Yeah. >> And that says it all. So, you know, there there's no healthier food for you than raw milk. Unbelievable. And and yet they're trying to shut down your healthy food. But the Epstein clients are free to rock and roll. >> Yeah. I mean, for Yeah. I mean for the US the the the conditions are are uh and also for Europe of course the conditions are quite good to further implement a control group because during war or during shortages of food and during high inflation just like in co times um there there's there's a an argument that governments will make like look we need to control everything because there's a shortage so we need to make sure everyone is on board we need to share so um and also they want to probably avoid misinformation online so that's an argument to start verifying everyone online that's uh anonymous posting will also be most likely soon outlawed. So all these measures will be taken. So as a result of the war we could see more control in every nation but at the same time because of the war we will see uh also more uh fragmentation across the world. So for for let's say the elite to implement a global control grid, this war doesn't seem to be the answer or >> so here's the thing. The let's look at Europe because we just had Vanderlayan the other day say oh it was a mistake to shut down nuclear energy. So essentially, if you if you look at Europe, Trump made the deal with Putin on on dropping the sanctions without making sure Europe was covered for energy, right? So we've got the straight shutdown. That shutdown's part of Europe's energy. We have uh Putin saying, you know, he's not going to he's not going to provide energy to Europe unless he gets the ban and conditions and whatever. And what you do is you make sure I think Putin's getting another 150 million a day on Russian oil. It's probably more now. And and so the cash flows into into Russia are skyrocketing. At the same time, all the missiles and radar systems are being used now and move to the Middle East. So, so NATO is not there to stop Russia and and Putin now has enormous influx of cash flow to finance. Now, if you're Putin, why wouldn't you go straight to Adessa? >> Yeah, he he lacks he lacks proper internet because Starling has been disabled. That that's a real setback for Russia over the past few weeks. >> I don't know. If you if you look at everything Trump is doing vis Russia, it looks like Russia has a clean shot. >> Yeah. Well, it it seems it seems like Trump uh and and and Putin are in many ways working together. Um so basically what you're saying is that the fragmentation I see maybe isn't there and behind the scenes there's still cooperation and coordination going on also when it comes to the control grid. So Terry Misan uh who I'm a great admirer of had an interesting article where he posited that we're moving from the G7 to what he calls the C45. So you know who the G7 was? This the C45 is the United States, Russia, China, um who else have they? India and then uh possibly Japan. and and basically what it looks like is to move into technocracy. Um, America is going to take control of everything from Greenland down to Antarctica. So, the the Americas and then China takes control of the South China Sea, including Taiwan. Question is, what happens to Okinawa, and how how is Japan going to deal with that? And then somehow Europe and the Middle East become, I don't know, the Greater Israel Project. I don't it's not a clear picture there but um you know Europe is definitely and the G7 are definitely left out in the cold. # 29:30 Now I say that and... the people who shut down the straits was the city of London. It was the insurance industry that shut down the straits. >> True. >> So so it's not it's very murky. But, you know, I'm always saying on money and markets, it looks like, you know, you got a group of guys doing 1031 swaps all over the world. So, I don't know if you know what a 1031 swap is. No, >> but it's it's a way to swap real estate tax exempt within the United States. Okay. >> And of course, >> who's representing the United States worldwide with Putin and Xi Jinping? I mean, you've got two real estate developers who are personal business colleagues of the president running around, you know, one is his son-in-law running around making real estate deals and and land swaps with with basically the C4, >> right? >> That's crazy. Have you ever seen a more corrupt US government? >> You know something? I have seen massive corruption in my life. I have never seen anything as bad as this. And if you look at, you know, Trump is trying to control the elections and basically federalize the state elections so that he can control the elections. Now, remember the people who built the election fraud machinery were was the National Republican Party. So, the notion that the National Republican Party is somehow going to save us from election fraud is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. But, you know, but the Democrats have gotten in the game. Everybody's doing it. But um if you look at polls right now, I think the last time I looked, polling market had 89% chance the Democrats take the house if the Democrats. So, but that has there has to be real elections for that to happen. And Trump is trying to make sure he can shut down the elections, but we'll see what happens if the Democrats win. And if this keeps up, if he loses the war, they're going to get the h they're going to get Senate, too. So, um, you know, the odds aren't there now, but the polls say they take the House. When that happens, you're going to have impeachment hearings. And people will say to you, politicians, oh, they don't have the votes to get through the Senate, so they can't really impeach. If you look at what hearings can do to educate the American people about the grift that's been going on for the last, I don't know, two years, four years, whatever. But certainly in the Trump administration, you know, it's going to be mind-blowing. So, uh, the the grift has been the worst I've ever seen. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and you've documented, of course, uh, in in the past, all the missing trillions, um, from 21 trillion to the most recent estimate you gave me was was 36, I believe, but that was already more than half a year ago. And over the past few months, it went in overdrive. I guess >> if you go to our missingmoney website, missingmoney.seller.com, larer.com or you go to our X feed. The top graphic shows you Epstein goes to the White House in '94 and then it shows you all the money going missing. That's the 21 trillion between 98 and 2015 and then it shows you the 29 trillion being of bailouts during the great financial crisis and then the 5 trillion injection on the go great uh on the going direct reset. you know, for a total combination of all three of $55 trillion. So that's the financial coup. And it's been quite extraordinary, but it's been the uni party doing it. I mean, make no mistake about it. We are not allowed to have a war in the United States without Congress authorizing it. Has Congress authorized this war? No. That's why you see Trump saying, "Well, it's an excursion, but it's a war." But it's really not. It's an excursion. Um, and that's because they're breaking the law. They've been breaking the law on the financial management since fiscal 1990 probably 96 or 1998 whichever you know the we have to depend on what the document the government documentation we have but they've been massively breaking the law and uh and Congress has been going along with it. Now, I would point out the president's chief negotiator with Putin, with the Chinese, everybody is Jared Kushner, his son-in-law. At the end of the last administration, my favorite video of Jared Kushner is uh he gave an interview after he left the administration and he said speaking about the the incredible technological advancements in life science. He said, "I'm going to be the last generation to not live forever or the first generation to live forever. So, I'm really trying to take good care of myself." Now, one compelling reason for depopulation is if you're going to live forever, you can't afford for everybody else to live forever. Right. >> Exactly. >> Right. So, and I I would point out Larry Frink has publicly stated that we now have a new economic model where we can grow economically with a shrinking population. >> Yeah. Yeah. I know Amy, if you look at fertility rates across the the globe, uh it seems like uh we're going to have a lot less people in the future anyway. So yeah, but I think this is very well I I think the current governance system intends that, but I don't presume they're going to get their way. Um, but I will mention one thing. One of the biggest debates in the US, so so one of the biggest debates is programmable money, but another big debate is pesticide liability. So they've enjoyed so much success depopulating by giving vaccines corporate liability shields um that you have bear who bought Monsanto coming around and trying to get both the feds and the states to give pesticide liability shields and it's been a huge battle and in the process we had one of the micro uh it's called a microtox it's I don't know they're they're an expert in sort of microtox poisoning if you will. There's a bign name biotoxologist something like that. Anyway, so we had this wonderful young scientist on the financial rebellion show that we do on CHDTV and we go through the whole show and she's explaining what the pesticides do to our bodies, what it does to our fertility and she's very sort of documenting and being very careful. She's a scientist. And we get to the end and she says, and we clip this out in our video shorts. She says, "You have to understand if this liability protection is provided, I consider it that that the impact on fertility will be such that I consider it an extinction level event." >> Okay. >> Now, that's >> what that what that means. So, you know, it's been her testimony. our lobbyist um who lobbies uh several uh Tennessee she's been she also lobbies on behalf of fresh food and raw milk and so she was working with this toxicologist in every in several states and they've been able to stop um going forward with this but then if you look at the extraordinary amount of money and support that's coming top down sort of by the mega to support this. It's no accident. There's no way given the science on this that they don't know. There's no way it's anything other than intentional. And what's interesting is that, you know, at the same time they're doing this, uh, we're watching basically the fertilizer industry being significantly impacted or or shut down in many places, certainly in Europe, by what's happening in the straits. >> Yeah. >> So, so the the battle for control of the food system is extraordinary. And what is happening with the straits gives you an extraordinary um the straits and other things. If you look at the Trump policies, you are looking at massive and thousands of different actions by government to severely consolidate farming and agriculture. >> Yeah. to talk a little bit more about control because that that's the one thing that also really um interests me because you've talking uh you've talked a few times uh also with Tucker about who's behind the control grid and you mention uh families such as the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers. Um what surprises me though is that in the Epstein fells we can see that Epstein tells Peter Theor for example that he's representing the Rothschilds families. We also see that he had intense contact with several Rochelle members and he was also being paid by them. I saw amounts of like $25 million for just some consulting. I wish I could charge those fees. Um but I'm surprised these these documents are leaked as well then because normally these types of powerful families want to stay um behind the scenes, but in this way they've sort of their their fingerprints are all all are all over these documents. Why would they let that happen? What what's I don't get it. >> So, I think that's an excellent question and I don't know if I know the answer. So, I always tell the story when I was a partner at Dylan Reed, I um I just become a partner and there was a guy who worked at Dylan Reed, a wonderful man, and his dad had been the chairman of the firm. So, he was the guy you went to when you didn't understand what was going on, you know, because he knew where all the bodies were buried. So we had appointed a new president and I described this in my online book Dylan Reed in the aristocracy of stock profits. Anyway, we had this new president who was very unlike our chairman. If you look at the kind of people he chose and the culture that he, you know, encouraged to Dylan Reed, this guy was very much outside the c, you know, is uh very different. Anyway, so I said to this guy, you know, where did how did Nick pick John Berkeland? His name was John Berkeland. I said, he's not like a Nick guy at all. And this and and this guy looked at me like I was the stupidest person in the world. It's like, this is why we should never make a woman a partner. They're clueless. And that look and and he said, Nick didn't pick Birkeland. The Ros Shields picked Berkeland. I said, "The Raw Shields, what are the Raw Shields at? We own the firm. The firm is owned by the partners. We owe the firm." How is the Ros Shields picking our president when they're they're not in the firm? And he just looked at me like, "This is why you should never make a woman a partner. They're just clueless." And he rolls his eyes and walks off and refuses to answer the questions. Okay. So now that is to support what you just said about how you know the families who manage the equity and institutional money around the central banks are always very quiet and there was like when I was in the administration there were 10 degrees of separation between them. You know there was layers and layers of bureaucracy so that you could never do what what is now happening with the Epstein files. you know there there was just too many buffers in protection. Now there was one moment in the administration where um I was in a meeting with the secretary and he was having sort of a manic episode and he was screaming at one of the regional administrators for having implemented a court order and the regional administrator said to him, you know, in defense because the guy was really screaming and yelling and it was quite a temper tantrum and he said, "But Mr. Secretary, I had to do it. um it's the law and the secretary just exploded in anger and said the law the law I don't have to obey the law I report to a higher moral authority and everybody's looking at him and it was this if you've ever seen the movie eyes wide shut >> it's like an eyes wide shut moment where suddenly you're looking at who really runs things and um you know and everybody just looked at each other but that was a very rare thing to happen and it was because this guy really was having a manic episode I used to get calls from the White House asking me if he was having manic episodes, you know, and what they should do. >> But, you know, that was very rare because you had so many degrees of separation. And what's happening is you've seen steadily, and this is part of, you know, technology integrating things. The degrees of separation are getting thinner and thinner and thinner. And one of the reasons is the people who run the governance system are getting more and more confident in the tools they've created to control. >> Yeah. So maybe they're that camp for the confident that they think well whatever. Um people can can in the end just know who pulls the strings. It's us it's fine you know get get used to it >> right. But I will say this it's not so simple because you you do see people in the you know let's talk about the intergenerational wealth around the central banks. You do see people in those families get assassinated. I mean when these guys fight they fight mean. And you know, it's it's not uh when you hear people talk about what it's like to live in those syndicates, you know, it's it's not as easy or safe as it sounds. >> Yeah. It's like Game of Thrones, right? >> Right. Perfect. There you go. I think, you know, they make these films so we can understand. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> I I I talked to Simon Dixon the other day. Maybe you've heard of him. He's one of the Bitcoin OGs, but he in many ways he's also very much tuned into what you're saying and he's saying it's like ruthless out there. So some of these top families, they're they're vying for control and and sometimes they work together and often times they would just uh destroy each other. Um but he has also an interesting point when it comes to programmable money because indeed he he of course also has acknowledged that Epstein had an instrumental role when it comes to funding some of these uh bitcoin and crypto uh companies such as blockstream and or MIT >> but he he says that in the end it doesn't matter because Bitcoin is open source software and if people use it the right way without using these Wall Street firms and everything then it could be a tool for for freedom and for prosperity. It's just that a lot of people um don't use it the right way and Wall Street has co-opted uh in many ways the ecosystem that now it's it's more of a a tool for for terror but it could be a liberation um weapon as well. Do you agree with that if if used properly? >> So, first of all, let me just say I love Simon Dixon. I just did an interview with him I don't know a couple months ago. I think he's uh you know I just I really like him. >> Okay. And uh and so I I think you can use digital currency if you do it wallet to wallet and do it yourself. I think there is a way to use it, you know, that can work for the freedom team. I don't think I think it came from a top- down effort to build a control grid and to get the freedom team prototyping their programmable money. But that doesn't say it can't be hijacked. in the 90s when I I had a firm that was very high-tech in Washington called Hamilton Securities and we had a product in 96 called Just in Time Money and we were trying to invent something equivalent to Bitcoin. So, you know, so I understand the thing the the problem is we don't have a financial problem on this planet. We have a governance problem >> and you can't solve the governance problem with money, right? Because it's not a financial problem. So, uh, now what Simon wants to do is everybody to use peer-to-peer wallets. The reality is you're not going to get enough liquidity to do that. So, you've got to deal with a governance issue. And I realize that it looks hopeless to deal with a governance issue. But I'm one of those people who would rather um would rather face the music now and deal with a real problem because ultimately you know there are solutions unless we want to continue to live on a highly primitive planet. So and I also think the control grid will fail. Um so I think the guys trying to put into institute the control grid will ultimately fail and that's why the rest of us have to have plan B. And and to me the real solution here is not only to bring transparency or do what you can to stop the control grid but do everything you can to build towards plan B and and that's what our focus is very much you know at least 50% on building plan B because I just think they're going to fail. >> Yeah it's interesting plan B can be of course expressed in many ways. Um, I have the the privilege of talking to a lot of interesting people in in this uh in this scene also like Ian Davis, you probably also know him. >> Great. We did a we did a huge promotion of his book and John Titus did an interview of him for the Slayer Report. I think it's fantastic. >> Yeah. And of course, I also love his humor and but he he just like you, he he he propagates the use of cash, of course. Um but he's even like he's he's quite extreme in the sense that he also advises you to just stop using your smartphone all of that right so >> which which uh but of course also you and I we use YouTube to uh to to disseminate our message so basically we're using the control grid as well so that's that's always a little bit uh >> right >> um in a way >> so let's look at what a very successful financial system would look like it would be part analog and digital And it would have both. And what we're saying at Solarity is cuz you know we love digital technology is is we need a balance. We need to not go to 100% digital technology because that's where the control grid snaps into place. So keep do everything you can to keep analog alive by using cash by uh you know so if you don't have one I will send you one. Where is it? Let me get it. Aarity bag to keep your smartphone in. Right. So when I'm not uh you know when I don't need to have the smartphone on I I use it when I travel. I don't use it when I'm not traveling. But you know it's in this Faraday bag. So >> Oh, nice. Yeah. >> Yeah. So So >> I'll send you one. >> Don't worry about it. I'll >> So So um you know, so you want a balance of analog and digital and not let it go all digital because then then you're snapping into a whole different parallel system. if cash goes away and it's funny because cash is reversing. So during the pandemic it was going down now it's reversing. So let me give you some examples and you know I I see that they could use another round of lockdowns because of the straits you know to change this but um we saw the the leaders in killing cash have been the Scandinavian central banks and particularly the Reichkes Bank in Sweden. And we saw in 2023 the breaks bag came out and said given what's happening with disasters and emergencies, telecommunications and electronic systems don't always work. We were wrong, we need to take cash the other way. Um, you know, you saw in the cyclones in New Zealand, the governor of the of the Reserve Bank came out and said, "Thank God we had cash. The whole system would have shut down if we didn't have cash. Thank god we had cash." And I said, "We ran it on the money and markets." And I said to Titus, apparently he did not get the memo. Anyway, so so emergencies, disaster preparedness, all these things has been pushing cash back the other way, but but also control. There's so many small businesses and farms who understand um the power and the importance of cash. So if I uh spend €100 in Stavorin and then it goes around and around and around and around and around in cash after a,000 transactions you still have $100. After a,000 transactions it's g all gone in fees. I mean the fees that they're taking out. We had uh um Ricardo who runs the the investment analyst for our screen company and then the young builders which I have to tell you about. It's fabulous. you you need to plug into the young builders. Anyway, so Ricardo and one of his friends were cycling around and they stopped to get uh milk from a farmer. He has a uh like a refrigerator up full of, you know, milk and you take it out and there's a bowl and you just put cash in the bowl. And so one day they stopped by and he was there and they said, you know, how do you like your cash system? And he says, are you worried about theft? He said, no. He said, "The theft that I deal with is less than the fees I would deal with and the cost of buying the machine and the fees." So, you know, the the credit card companies and the banks are going to steal more than my neighbors. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it usually you also sometimes mention the tapeworm uh uh comparison, right? It's the financial system is like it's like a it's like a tapeworm. >> It's a tapeworm. It's a tapeworm. So, one of the things, one of the most frustrating things for me is um I I don't know if you've ever tried to read the terms and conditions that we have to agree with to use all this stuff. So, I'm one of those people if I agree to use a financial product, I will try and read the terms and conditions. Somebody made a documentary about terms and conditions and published it in 2015. And it was one of our uh documentaries of the or movie of the week on the salary report, but they said if we honestly read the terms and conditions, it would take us 3 months a year of the products we use. And that was 2015. So we needed an a service. Do you know what a is? It's a >> It's old school, >> right? It's old school. So, we need an a service and I I spent three months trying to negotiate with one um and and I had to read multiple terms and conditions and I would I would figure out a way to negotiate and and agree with the terms and conditions I could agree with and then they would pop up with another one that they hadn't told me about and try and get me to jam it. And finally after 3 months they came up with their fourth set of terms and conditions. And in total the whole term and condition process was 134 pages in tiny type. And I got to the the fourth set and pages 133 to 134 where I found the single most unacceptable terms and conditions I've ever read on a financial product in my life. and I had to cancel the whole effort and it must have taken about 20 25 hours for me and our general counsel, right? But but it was a sneak attack. And what they were asking me to agree to is that they could come into our bank account and take whatever was there without a court order, without evidence or whatever, just claiming they had, you know, that I had violated the transparency laws in 135 different countries around the world. Um, and and so you're required to know what every country is saying legally and to be in compliance, which is impossible. possible. You know, you'd need a team of 20 attorneys to do it, full-time to do it, and and they can come into your bank account, take everything, and keep it for 6 months with no evidence, documentation, or court order. I was giving them permission to seize all of our bank deposits. >> Yeah. >> With no legal pre, you know, reason. >> But it's a strong argument in favor of cash, right? because this is a real and acute danger that especially in times of war and and that they will confiscate your assets and your bank account and uh having cash at hand is is is a protection. >> Yeah. And gold >> of course. Yeah. >> So you know the the guys who want programmable money are trying to persuade all the states to do digital gold and um and if you if you deep dive what it is, you know that's no solution. What you need is you need physical gold. >> Yeah, I don't always promote my own company because I sometimes want to sort of keep things separated, but yeah, as you know, I I run a gold company in here in Holland. So, most of my viewers actually are American, so they they can do cannot do anything with gold. But yeah, we we do see a a huge surge uh in in in demand for gold. But the bad thing is that you used to be able to pay with cash uh for large amounts as well in the Netherlands. But since January of this year, there's a limitation of 3,000 euro per transaction per month, which is which is ridiculous, of course, because at the same time, the government is saying you need to start having cash at home and everything. And and and at the same time, they're saying, "Look, you cannot use cash too much." Like, what do you want? You want us to use cash or not? Like, seriously. Anyway, personal frustration. >> No, they want they want control, right? They want control. Yeah. Well, thanks so much, uh, Kathy. You know, I can I can we we maybe should do a at some point in the future, perhaps later this year, we should sit down again in in Stav and maybe record it. >> That would be great. >> Like a marathon, like a three-hour session because this was one hour, I guess, and it's just uh just, >> you know, would be great is somehow if we could get, you know, Simon and Ian and you and me and, you know, Yeah. So we we have uh you know we have apartments, we have a gallery, we have a place we can gather. It would be great to get all the freedom fighters together talking about okay what's the action? How do we you know how do we how do we proceed down the road to plan B and walk away from the control grant. So >> yeah, at least we can do an online session but perhaps also in person because they they all live close by basically. So >> here's the thing. What I'm finding, you know, I've been I've been sort of meeting and and working with people who are trying to stop programmable money for the last six weeks. Um, including this thing we're doing, the young build. Can I just tell you about the young builders? >> Okay. So, one of the things that was happening is our subscribers are so angry about what's happening in education. They're saying, "Why should I send my beautiful child to an institution that is going to, you know, cost me a quarter of a million dollars or euros and, you know, basically destroy their mind, teach them lies, you know, I just I don't want to do that to my children." So um uh so we said okay well let's start a course called the young builders and it's really about helping young people learn how to build enterprise build businesses build wealth you know where does wealth come from how do you build a successful life and how do you do it without wasting your time and so we uh Ricardo started this program and um we didn't it's a prototype so we put out the idea We got with no marketing, just to our email list by letting subscribers know, we got 89 applications and chose 29 of the most remarkable young people I have ever met in my life. They're remarkable and we're doing online, but then we have events. So, the first event was in Europe and they came from India and Switzerland and all over the United States and Canada. It was amazing group and um and what we discovered among other things is they just need to find each other. >> Yeah. >> You know, and if you look at what these young people, so I'll give you an example up on our website. Our music of the week this week is from one of the young builders. He's 24 years old. He's an organ composer. His name is Maverick Moretti. I know his dad who's a remarkable author. And it's basically he just published 24 preludes for the organ based on Bach, but it's so much lighter, you know, cuz I listen to a lot of Bach. He's one of my favorite composers. It's so much lighter and younger and and really interesting. It's amazing. And so, uh, he's published it and he's got his website and he's he's he's helping rejuvenate organs around the world. It's amazing. >> Yeah. My my my boys are six and two, so I guess they're too young to enroll, but >> Oh, but they qual actually it was supposed to be 18 to 28. We had one young man who was 13 come. His mom came too. She was amazing. He's amazing. And uh you know, so we I don't know. It's uh >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting and inspiring because yeah, it starts with that generation. of course they they they they need to be um uh in in in in tune with with with philosophy and and have a positive mindset um and and really start building uh alternatives >> right so the greatest waste of capital I see in the world is wasting young people's time >> and they know it they can feel it and so one of the you know the way you build a great civilization is one child at a time that's how you do it and so we have to help make sure that we find ways for whether it's your kids or Ricardo's kids or Robert's kids or you know, we've got to make sure these kids have an ability to navigate what is happening in a way that doesn't waste their time or or destroy them. I mean, I see young people destroyed by, you know, the mind control programming and all the stuff that's going on. So, >> Sure. Yeah. >> So, so part of it is teaching them to adopt a culture that will help them be successful and productive. Yeah. >> Well, thanks uh Katherine. I think that's a great positive note to end the conversation with. As always, true pleasure to talk to you. Thanks again for making time for me available. >> Okay. >> And um yeah, let's keep in touch. And of course, just for people just to make sure they they have to go to salary.com. We'll put everything in the show notes. Make sure to follow Katherine and her work and subscribe and become a customer. Thanks again, Katherine. >> Thank you, Paul. Have a great day. >> You too. Bye bye.